karmakarma

 

 

關於「業」(Karma)的一些疑問
karma questions

 

(下方文字節錄自維基百科對於「佛教中的業」所作的解釋)
Second, you really are responsible for your actions. There is no outside force, like the stars or some good or evil being, acting through you. When you are conscious, you are the one who decides what happens. (see this link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism
中譯如下:
第二,你必須承擔自己行為的後果。因為,沒有任何的「外力」(例如:天上的星象、善良的眾生、邪惡的眾生…等)可以在你身上作用。當你能夠覺察到這一點的時候,你就是命運的主宰者。(請參考以下的連結)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism

針對此段敘述,我想提出一些疑問:

 

如果一個人只有「意識」,而沒有「我」的本體的存在,那麼,你要如何承擔自己行為的後果呢?究竟是誰在承擔自己行為的後果呢?如果沒有「我」的本體的存在,那麼,究竟是「八識」(前五識,即眼、耳、鼻、舌、身五種感官;第六識,即意識;第七識,即末那識;第八識,即阿賴耶識 )中的哪一個「意識」在承擔自己行為的後果呢?

 

是什麼因素,使得這「八識」在我們死後仍然存在,並且重新塑造下一世的「我」?

 

以我對佛教粗略的理解,我發現佛教認為,如果能夠完全擺脫對於「八識」的執著,那麼,就能達到解脫。而這裡所說的「八識」,並不是永恆不變的,它們可能變得更好,也可能變得更差。我的問題是,這「八識」是如何彼此作用呢?我想,應該要有某些外力來驅使它們、掌控它們,才能使它們作用吧!如果你跟我說,在這些「意識」之外,並沒有操控它們的「我」或「靈魂」…等,也沒有任何「永恆不變」的本體存在,然而,我們卻將「八識」所組成的共同體稱為「人」或「眾生」…等,那麼,我們將會遇到許多嚴重的邏輯問題。這就好像是把人比喻成某一種由許多分子組成的物質,而這些分子的結合,讓這些物質具有形體和本體…等,那麼,我們將會遇到以下問題:

 

‧就好像《那先比丘經》中所提到的彌蘭王(King Milinda Pahna)與那先比丘的辯論一樣,我們將車子分解之後,變成許多部份,卻無法找到那個叫做車子的東西。(請參閱http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T32/1670b001.htm)為什麼我們不把「八識」分解成更細微的「子意識」呢?也就是說將八個「意識」分解為十六個「意識」或三十二個「意識」…等。如果從邏輯觀點來看,「八識」被分解成許多「子意識」之後,這八個「意識」也同樣不存在,或者,我們可以說,「八識」不只可以分成八個「意識」,還可以分成無窮個「意識」,就好像各種基本粒子一樣(例如:夸克、電子…等)。

 

.如同《清淨道論》第十六品513節所言:
有苦而無什麼受苦者,
有作而無作者的存在,
有滅而無入滅者,
有道卻無行者的存在。
(請參閱http://myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lausinan/Tipitaka/Post-Canon/Visuddhimagga/chap16.htm)
如果「無什麼受苦者,無作者的存在」,將沒有任何的「倫理責任」。就算有「倫理責任」的話,究竟是誰要負起這些倫理責任呢?

 

.依據上文的描述,就算我殺了你,我也沒有殺死任何人。或者,如果「業」的概念是正確的,那麼,我殺了你有可能是幫了你一個大忙,因為你上輩子有可能是一個作惡多端的人,所以,這輩子你注定要接受這種悲慘的下場。

 

.那麼「八識」呢?如果我們說,這八個「意識」的作用就像是物理學中的「場論」,那麼,我們就可以用一個方程式來表達,例如:系統的動量或熵,在這種情況下,我們就必須接受,有更多的事物使這八個「意識」在下一世中結合在一起,並且擁有某種永恆不變之物,例如:總能量…等。

 

正如我之前曾經說過的,我的心中對佛教充滿了敬意,我所提出的問題,並不是為了要挑戰佛教,而是要開啟一個對話窗口,促使彼此的瞭解。

 

我也要再強調一次,佛教是一個宗教。許多人接受以上的佛教教義,是出於信仰上的「相信」,而不是藉由邏輯推演而得到的結果。事實上,一個佛教徒確實需要接受這些教義,如果你接受這些想法,乃是出於對佛陀的信仰,那麼我非常尊重你的決定,我也沒什麼要補充的了。因為如果是基於信仰而相信,就算是矛盾的部分,也是可以接受的。但是如果你認為,你所相信的這些,是從我們的生活經驗和邏輯推論出來的結果,那麼我當然要提出其中矛盾的部分。

 

此外,對於「因果」這個概念,我還有一些其它的問題。對輪迴來說,因果是非常重要的一個因素。可是,「因果」和「時間」之間,究竟有什麼連結?如同我們所知的,「果」永遠是順著時間流動的方向在前進,「果」不可能發生在「因」之前。我們說,某甲是某乙的「因」,在這種狀況下,某甲必定要發生在某乙之前。很顯然的,某甲是「因」,而非「果」。所以我認為,在接受因果的同時,我們都忽略了一個因素:就是「時間」的存在。如果「因果」存在,那麼「時間」也必須要存在。也就是說,我們一旦接受了因果關係,我們就不能不去檢視「因」與「果」是如何相互依存、交互運作的。

 

如果時間是由許多的小部分所組成的,就如同彌蘭王這個故事所描述的一樣,那麼事實上,時間並不存在,因為,我們都知道,時間是由「一分一秒」所組成的。事實上,這是古希臘Zeno所提出的一個詭譎的問題,這也是最困難的數學難題之一。然而,如果沒有「時間」的存在,那麼佛教徒要如何定義「因果關係」與「業」呢?

http://theological.asia/node/587
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karma questions

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism

 

 

Second, you really are responsible for your actions. There is no outside force, like the stars or some good or evil being, acting through you. When you are conscious, you are the one who decides what happens. (see this link)

 

my question:

 

 how you can have responsibility, if there are only consiousnes, 意識, but you have NO PERSONAL IDENTITY? who is responsible? because there is no personal identity , which one of the eight consciousnesses ( five 五識 corresponding the sense perceptions, the sixth 意識 to the thinking mind, the seventh 末那識 to the notion of ego, and the eighth 阿賴耶識 ) curries the responsibility?

 

 what makes those 8 consiousneses to continue to exist after my death, and then to reform ‘me’ in the next life?

 

 i am liberated if i escape the attachment to those 8 dharmas which are supposed to be impermanent, and changeable to the better or worse. my question is how they are interacting? must be something else to drive them, to control them. if you say to me there is nothing else, THERE IS NO PERSONAL IDENTITY, soul , etc, there is NOTHING PERMANENT, but THERE UNION BECOMES THE WHAT WE CALL PERSON, HUMAN BEING ETC, like for example any material thing consists of many molecules, and those molecules make the thing tohave shape, identities etc, -as to my poor understanding buddhism says,- then we have more difficult logical problems. :

 

o the problem of the temporary parts as it is expressed in milinda pahna. which is , that why not to continue to divide the 8 dharmas to more sub-dharmas, and from 8 to become 16, 32, etc… SO THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION IS THAT THE 8 DHARMAS DO NOT EXIST, OR THERE ARE NOT 8 BUT AN INFINITE NUMBER like the different particles (quarks, electrons etc….)

 

o there is no ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY because WHAT or WHO curries it? see here visuddhimaga 清淨道論 chap XVI ,513(there is only pain but you can not find him who suffers the pain. the acts exist but you cannot find the responsible there is nirvana, but not he who search. the way exists but not the traveler)

 

§ in that case if i kill you, i kill NOBODY, or

 

§ if karma is correct, may be i do a favor to you because YOU WAS A BAD PERSON IN YOUR PREVIOUS LIFE, THIS IS WHY NOW YOU DIE SO BAD DEATH.

 

o the 8 dharmas? if we say that they are like in field theory, and a state equation represents them, for example like the system momentum or entropy, in that case we should accept MORE THINGS that come out and make thos 8 dharmas to be together in the next lives i will have, something that in is invariant like the total energy etc…

 

 as i said before , my questions are not to provoke buddhism which i do respect a lot but to start some mutual understanding dialogue.

 

 i also want once more to point out , that Buddhism IS a religion. if you accept the above things , which actually every buddhist must accept, you accept them, NOT AS LOGICAL TRUTHS BUT AS A FAITH. a trust to a person, to buddha. in that case of course , i respect the decision, and i have nothing to say, because if you started accepting you will accept the contradictions also. but if you say that those belives we can CONCLUDE from our experience and logic, of course we must talk about the contradictions.

 

there is also another question about the reason-result 因果 which is very important in reincarnation. what is the connection with the time? as we know causality has always to do with the arrow of time. we say A is the reason of B . in that case FIRST comes A and then follows B. because if B comes first then obviously is the reason and not the result.

 

so i think that we omit something: the existence of time. if reason-result exists, time also must exist. which means we must not just ACCEPT the causality, without examining HOW the reason —-result pair works.

 

but if the time consists of parts, as in milidha pahna we can understand, there is not really time, because the time consists of moments. actually it is the ancient greek paradox of Zeno, one of the most difficult mathematical puzzles. if there is no time, then how a Buddhist defines the causality, and the karma?